What changed your mind?

Regardless of whether you’re a Democrat or Republican, a Liberal or Conservative, or a Left- or Right-winger, if you didn’t initially like the FairTax, what changed your mind? What was the ultimate turning point that made you see the FairTax in a different light? Where was the epiphany?

I’ve heard some say that it was their view on Corporate Welfare that did it. I’ve heard others say that it is the progressivity that the “Prebate” adds. I’ve even been told that it is the “socialistic” quality that it brings by completely untaxing the poor.

I would like to know if there are other progressive characteristics so that we can try to help others see them. The FairTax is a non-partisan bill that needs the support of people from both sides of the aisle. As long as it is viewed as a “Republican Bill” then it will continue to sit on the desks of our House members.

Please contact YOUR congressmen right now and let them know you support the FairTax and that you want them to also.

POPVOX, HR-25: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr25
POPVOX, S-13: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/s13

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I'm the grandson of an Underwood and have been mapping my Underwood Family Tree for a couple years now.

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Posted in Congress, HR-25, Prebate, Progressiveness
5 comments on “What changed your mind?
  1. I don’t know if there was a point that I disliked the FairTax. I remember being concerned about replacing “all” our federal taxes with a “Sales Tax” (really just the income-based ones but they make up almost all of them anyway in the percent of funds raised). Like many others probably start out thinking, I was sure there was some major drawback as we’re always told that such taxes are “regressive” (even though they’re really proportional) and thus the reason most states exempt items like food from their state-level sales taxes. However, once I heard about the Prebate and that only new goods were taxed (and only once at the retail level so as to remove multiples of taxation on the same dollar) I was pretty solidly in favor.

    As time’s gone on and gotten I’ve more “into the weeds” on the issues, I’ve still not found anything to convince me that the FairTax is not the *best* option out there.

    .. and no, “best” does not imply “perfect”. I do not think passage of the FairTax is going to result in magical faerie-like creatures riding around on unicorns (which perhaps exude some golden substance 😉 ) while handing out a “free lunch” of some form or another to everyone. I *do* think that the FairTax is, as it’s naming suggest, the fairest solution out there … and when I say “fairest” I mean most equitable and balanced in terms of application of the tax laws to individuals (as opposed to the way those with a child-like mentality use the word “fair”). *No* tax plan can really be “perfect” as in order to “perfect” in one aspect (say revenue collection from those who have “ability” to pay) you have to all but destroy any chance of “perfecting” some other aspect (like respect of personal privacy and ease of compliance).

    Our current nightmare of an income tax system is an excellent example of those in government trying to “perfect” the method that revenue is collected (e.g. those wanting to collect more from those that have more and less from those that don’t have as much) while sacrificing privacy (having to supply personal information to receive certain credits and deductions) and certainly sacrificing ability to best take advantage of, or even comply with, the code (e.g. filing for a deduction you believe you qualify for but being assumed “guilty” of tax fraud upon finding that some other obscure section of the tax code disqualified you for that deduction … especially if you “made too much money” to qualify yet are nowhere near “rich”).

    • FairTaxer says:

      Well said, Merlin! I think you and I have seen the FairTax in nearly (if not exactly) the same light. I too, was a bit weary at first. Being told that “consumption taxes are always regressive” (what a misnomer that is, huh?) kinda sticks with you. But then when you start digging deeper into the FairTax and realizing that the Architects of the Bill really thought this through and made a genuine attempt at making the FairTax as “fair” as humanly possible, you really wish this system would have been created 100 years ago. Could you imaging the advancements we would have made over the past 100 years if we simply had a fair system of taxation that didn’t promote corruption or force trillions of dollars and billions of jobs away from the US?

  2. Ed Pickard says:

    You have not fully explained how the Fair Tax bill will take care of the Social Security and Medicare payments. And, how will the individuals who pay into it will be credited for payments. The system is complex and is not easily understood by most, including congress. You must sell the whole process and it must be reasonably executed.

    • FairTaxer says:

      Ed, this post really has nothing to do with Social Security, so I don’t understand why you’re asking this question here. But I will answer.

      I want to first make something VERY clear: the FairTax has NOTHING to do with Social Security payments and the FairTax changes NOTHING inside the Social Security system.

      Before reading on, please re-read the previous statement slowly so that we are on the same page. I don’t want you to miss anything.

      Now that we have that straight, the FairTax will ONLY handle HOW the money for Social Security and Medicare are collected. Under our current tax system, there are something like 3 people paying into the system for every 1 person collecting. It used to be something like 20:1. The FairTax will change that by collecting funds from EVERYONE who purchases new goods and services. Once the money has been collected and distributed to the proper authorities, the FairTax will have NOTHING to do with it. Understand?

      What the FairTax does, is ENSURES that Social Security and Medicare are FULLY FUNDED by including those rates into the calculation of the FairTax. The FairTax rate is currently set at 23%. If the Social Security rate were to drop a point, so would the FairTax. The same goes for Medicare. Understand?

      As far as individuals paying into the system. Again, that would remain unchanged, as it is a part of the Social Security/Medicare systems, NOT the FairTax. So, however your earnings are being reported now, that would remain the same. Understand?

      I agree that “the system is complex”, but I think we’re talking about two different systems. The SS/MC systems are the complex systems. The FairTax is simple to understand, you just have to get your mind away from the status quo “Income Tax” style thinking.

      Please read and ask any future questions on the page I have dedicated to Social Security: https://fairtaxer.wordpress.com/fairtax/fairtax-social-security/

    • FairTaxer says:

      I’ll allow you this one, Hank, because I too think you bring up a good point that is rarely addressed. I’ll break it down:

      Hank wrote: “While AFFT oversimplifies their SS discussion by claiming that only the funding source changes, it really is much more complicated in operation. Think about it this way. We would move from a system that is funded by contributions from workers paychecks to a system that is funded by all retail spending. Where today, workers pay into the Trust Funds only during their working years, under the Fairtax, everyone will pay in for their whole life.”

      The only thing that is truly complicated is the way you make the FairTax system out to be an evil entity that is only out to steal your money. First, Hank, you have to get off of this “I’m done with the system, so I shouldn’t have to pay into it anymore” mentality. It’s people like you who have gradually dragged down this system and screwed it up for generations to come. You will be LONG gone by the time I, my children, and my grandchildren will be collecting from this system. You’re done with it, quit your griping.

      Second, at the outset of the Social Security program, the federal government published an informational pamphlet that stated the following with regard to Social Security taxes:

      And finally, beginning in 1949, 12 years from now, you and your employer will each pay 3 cents on each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year. That is the most you will ever pay.

      Accounting for inflation, this promise equates to a maximum tax collection of $1,655 per person. In 2010, the maximum payroll tax collection per person was $13,243 or eight times the promised maximum. Additionally, in 1940, the SS rate started out at 2%. By 1970, it more than quadrupled to 8.4%, and has remained at 12.4% since 1990.

      Now, back to the FairTax. Yes, the FairTax will move us “from a system that is funded by contributions from workers paychecks to a system that is funded by all retail spending”. You make this out to be BAD, Hank. But don’t you think that MORE people paying into the system would REDUCE the burden on EVERYONE involved? If there are 300,000,000+ people paying into the system, wouldn’t that equate to pennies on the dollar instead of thousands of dollars per year? The SS portion of the FairTax rate will be at 12.4% initially, but as it will be well funded by the underground economy, illegal immigrants, and tourists, as well as hard working Americans and anyone else who buys stuff in the USA, that rate is expected to drop; ultimately lowering the FairTax rate with it.

      Hank wrote:
      “… Where today, contributions generally cease upon reaching retirement age, payments to the Trust Funds under the Fairtax never cease. even when drawing benefits. Where today, benefits are based on pay scales, how will benefits be calculated when based on spending?

      So what, you pay a few extra cents to help future generations. Is there something wrong with that, Hank? Is there a reason you don’t want to help future generations of Americans? You’d think with your Military background that helping future Americans would be in your blood. But it doesn’t seem like it to me. It seems like you just care about yourself, Hank.

      Just so that everyone reading is “in the know”, Hank was once in line to be a State Director for the FairTax (Florida, wasn’t it, Hank?). I’m not saying this to “attack” Hank, I’m saying it to show others that Hank isn’t stupid when it comes to FairTax knowledge. Hank just bets that people like you and me ARE stupid when it comes to the FairTax and he is often intentionally disingenuous when it comes to revealing certain aspects of the FairTax to you.

      Hank knows EXACTLY how benefits will be calculated when based on spending, because Hank knows ‘SEC. 903. WAGES TO BE REPORTED TO SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION. of the FairTax Act of 2011. To answer his question, however:

      per SEC 903:
      In General- Employers shall submit such information to the Social Security Administration as is required by the Social Security Administration to calculate Social Security benefits under title II of the Social Security Act, including wages paid, in a form prescribed by the Secretary. A copy of the employer submission to the Social Security Administration relating to each employee shall be provided to each employee by the employer.

      In other words, Hank KNOWS that the FairTax doesn’t change reporting, he just neglected to let you know that he knew; intentionally.

      Hank wrote:
      “Are we really going to tell citizens that never held a job, but spent their wealth on consumption aren’t qualified to receive retirement benefits? I don’t think so!”

      Are you seriously defending a few wealthly citizens over an entire population of poor, lower- and working-class people who work their fingers to the bone, 40-70 hours per week? You’ve GOT to be joking me. Have you seen the taxes those wealthy citizens are paying now? They would GLADLY pay the FairTax and help pay into a Social Security program that will help others as long as it will get them out from under the stronghold of the IRS and the outrageous taxes they are paying now. If you truly don’t see it, then I suggest you find and read “The rich don’t Pay Tax…or do they?”

      I recommend you word your response carefully, Hank. If you want others to be able to read it.

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